Professor Satoshi Miyazaki × Patrick Harlan: What Role Should Japanese-Language Education Need Now?

Learners of Japanese are increasingly diverse. Some love anime and manga; others come for business or tourism; still others arrive as Technical Intern Trainees or to work under the Specified Skilled Worker status―and many are not necessarily studying in a classroom. When we think about Japanese-language education today, it is crucial to align with each learner's purpose and to emphasize independence and social adaptation. How, then, do we build a society of coexistence with people from varied cultural backgrounds? Waseda University professor Satoshi Miyazaki and television personality Patrick Harlan (Pakkun) discussed the topic with a sprinkle of humor while exploring hints for the future.

---

Extending Learning Beyond the Classroom as Learners Diversify

Patrick Harlan (Pakkun): Professor Miyazaki, why did you make Japanese-language education your life's work? What's compelling about it?

Satoshi Miyazaki: I've always been interested in research that connects Japanese-language education with society. After graduating from Waseda University, I taught Japanese while studying applied linguistics in graduate school in Australia, and I became interested in issues faced by immigrants and refugees and in how non-Japanese people participate in roles in a multicultural society. I've kept thinking about how Japanese-language teachers can contribute to people who don't necessarily appear in a classroom but still need Japanese―those working in healthcare or welfare, or people who are serving time.

Pakkun: I see―learners in an "outreach" position who aren't getting the support they need.

Miyazaki: If people leaving prison don't know society's rules, they can end up back there. That's why I also go into juvenile facilities and prisons to teach Japanese as part of correctional education.

Pakkun: People often ask why my Japanese is good, and I joke that it's because I didn't learn it from a teacher in school (laughs). The Japanese that teachers teach and the Japanese society uses aren't always the same. When I first came to Japan, I memorized a university textbook a friend gave me, but the "suge'e" I heard every day never showed up there.

Miyazaki: So, what did you do?

Pakkun: I switched to learning by frequency, and I progressed faster.

Don't Exclude People Who Can't Yet Speak Japanese: The Key Is Building Literacy Among Japanese People

Pakkun: You've looked at Japanese ability among foreign sumo wrestlers. What is behind their ability to pick it up so quickly?

Miyazaki: It's because they have all three conditions that matter for language study: motivation, environment, and practice strategies. Do you know the first word many of them learn?

Pakkun: Chanko hotpot?

Miyazaki: No (laughs), it's itai―"it hurts". Training is grueling. If you learned from a book, that adjective wouldn't appear right away. The environment matters too. Wrestlers live immersed with the stablemaster's wife and their stablemates, so they naturally learn by immersion.

Pakkun: That makes sense. In my experience, there are actually Japanese-language teachers everywhere: my comedy partner Makkun (Makoto Yoshida), people at an izakaya... You've got a hundred million teachers happy to teach you for free. Even now I'll check with those "teachers" to see if I'm using something naturally―tuition paid in smiles (laughs).

People say you have to start young or you'll never master a language, but that's not true. I passed the Japanese-Language Proficiency Test (JLPT)* at the N1 level in two years. For someone who doesn't come from a kanji-using region of Asia, that's on the fast side. Being an adult helped. You just need to find the study method that fits you.

Miyazaki: Exactly, tailor-made learning matters. I'm not saying Japanese-language teachers aren't needed. What you study in class is your first layer of knowledge; then you finish it by adjusting that knowledge in society―that's the second layer. Learners need to work through the gap between classroom Japanese and the Japanese used out in the world.

Pakkun: I'm often invited to speak on whether we can coexist with non-Japanese residents. I question the question―we're all human, of course we can coexist. That said, there are hurdles, like language.

Miyazaki: When we talk about coexistence, the Japanese language certainly plays an important role, but mishandled it risks exclusion rather than inclusion. Not everyone needs to become a perfectly fluent speaker.

Pakkun: If someone can't speak the language well, people can wrongly assume they lack ability. Listeners need to change how they think.

Miyazaki: In major immigrant countries like the United States and Australia, many people participate in society even without high proficiency in the dominant language. We shouldn't evaluate people by their language alone; we should evaluate the full range of abilities they have. If anything, it's Japanese people who need to build their literacy―that is, their ability to understand and interpret appropriately.

What It Takes for Japanese-Language Teachers to Thrive in the AI Era:
Nurturing the Ability to Think Beyond the Textbook

Pakkun: With AI entering the scene, how do you think learning environments are changing?

Miyazaki: AI is useful. I use it myself when creating teaching materials. The problem with conversational AI, though, is that it immediately hands you an answer when you ask a question. What we need in the twenty-first century are skills for thinking through social issues that don't have clear answers. I tell my students not to trust AI's output right away―to question it first, then think for yourself.

Pakkun: I see. So, the point is not to jump straight to an answer.

Miyazaki: In Japanese-language education, rather than relying on AI, we need to focus on how to teach ways of living and thinking, of profound learning. Going forward, teachers who can foster sustainable learning and communicate beyond what AI will likely be the ones who will remain.

Pakkun: Maybe AI can handle the basics, while teachers use their experience to tailor one-to-one intermediate and advanced instruction, which would mean teachers can survive too.

That said, technology is advancing to where you can hear what someone says instantly in your own language, even without a human interpreter. People ask whether it's still worth studying a language for ten or twenty years. What do you think?

Miyazaki: Some say that with AI, language teachers will disappear in fifty years. But that's not how I see it. AI's abilities will expand, but there will still be things it simply cannot do.

Pakkun: I agree, AI has limits. Studying a foreign language is like installing a new gear in your brain. Japanese gives you systems English doesn't, like communicating even without explicit subjects or using honorifics to manage social distance. Even now I'm naturally using honorifics with you, Professor Miyazaki, aren't I? Being able to speak while staying mindful of the other person's social position is a skill my American self didn't have. It's proof that I've grown into a "Japanese me."

Miyazaki: By the way, do AIs do manzai comedy yet?

Pakkun: Maybe in twenty years, but not just yet. What I want is to make the world laugh in Japanese. I'm doing stand-up shows in Tokyo and Nagoya now, and someday I'd like to perform live around the world for local Japanese communities. Manzai creates laughter through back-and-forth with a partner; stand-up creates laughter by talking directly to the audience. Either way, there's a uniquely human rhythm and feel that AI can't replace.

Miyazaki: Yes, live shows are popular because people want to engage with all five senses. After teaching online during the pandemic, I too felt how valuable that face-to-face, live performance atmosphere is.

Pakkun: Stand-up also has open-mic nights anyone can join―you should come!

Miyazaki: Who, me? (laughs) Just like a good comedy set, language teaching benefits from the occasional slip-up and from teachers with some charm. It's not only about teaching words, it's about nurturing the ability to live, then supporting learners from the sidelines until they can stand on their own. For anyone interested in becoming a Japanese-language teacher, I hope that's the mindset they approach it with.

（※）The Japanese-Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) is designed for non-native speakers. N1 is the highest level, indicating the ability to understand Japanese used in a wide range of contexts. The pass rate is around 30 percent.

Patrick Harlan (left)
Comedian and TV personality. Born in Colorado, USA. Known by the stage name "Pakkun." After graduating from Harvard University (Comparative Study of Religion), he came to Japan in 1993 at a friend's invitation. In 1997 he formed the comedy duo "Pakkun Makkun" with Makoto Yoshida. He appears as a commentator on news programs and serves as a part-time lecturer at Tokyo University of Science. He writes the occasional Newsweek Japan column "Pakkun no chotto majimena hanashi" (Pakkun's Slightly Serious Talk). Books include Gyakkyoryoku (Resilience) and Pakkun-shiki okane no sodatekata (How to Grow Your Money, Pakkun-Style).
X: @patrick_harlan
Instagram: pakkunmakkunpakkun
YouTube: パックンの明日使える世界の話

Satoshi Miyazaki (right)
Professor in the Graduate School of Japanese Applied Linguistics, Waseda University. Earned a Ph.D. in Applied Linguistics (Japanese Studies) from Monash University, Australia. Director of the Japanese Language Education Program at Vietnam Japan University. His specialties are sustainable language education policy and second language acquisition. He also develops Japanese-language programs that support the social reintegration of non-Japanese inmates. His publications include Gaikokujin rikishi wa naze nihongo ga umai no ka (Why Are Foreign Sumo Wrestlers So Proficient in Japanese?) and Gaikokujin kaigo, kango jinzai to sasutinabiliti: Jizoku kanō na imin shakai to gengo seisaku (Foreign Care and Nursing Personnel and Sustainability: A Sustainable Immigration Society and Language Policy).

Related Content

Beyond Japanese-Language Education:
Stories from Both Sides of the Classroom

Ukrainian-Japanese Interpreter Vitalii Zhygalko: Using the Japanese Language for Business in Ukraine
*Interview by Robert Campbell, Scholar of Japanese Literature

Patrick Harlan (Pakkun):
Learning Japanese from Scratch and My Love for Japanese Culture (Part I)
Learning Japanese from Scratch and My love for Japanese Culture (Part II)

Living Together with Japanese Language

Page top▲

• Back to previous page